
BBC Two and iPlayer’s annual Easter Pilgrimage is back for an eighth series as seven personalities of different faiths and beliefs set off across the wild landscapes of North East England. In Pilgrimage: The Road to Holy Island, the group follow a 390km network of trails, which celebrate early Celtic Christian saints while exploring their own beliefs and learning more about each other along the way
Taking part in this unique journey are Ashley Banjo, practising Christian and leader of dance troupe Diversity; Hermione Norris, Spooks and Cold Feet actor, who believes the divine can be found in all living things; Tasha Ghouri, TV personality and atheist; Hasan Al-Habib, stand-up comedian and observant Muslim; Jayne Middlemiss, radio presenter, who self-describes as spiritual; Ashley Blaker, comedian, previously ultra-Orthodox and now a non-practising Jew; and Patsy Kensit, actor and self-proclaimed "à la carte" Catholic.
Watch Pilgrimage: The Road to Holy Island on iPlayer from 5 April.
Interview with Hasan Al-Habib
What were you expecting to discover on the pilgrimage?
I wanted to get an understanding of what faith means to the other people, particularly people of different religious convictions, or of no religious conviction at all. I wanted to understand how people without a particular religion operate on a day-to-day basis with regards to ethics and morality. And I also wanted to learn more about the origins of Christianity in this country, because despite growing up here I can't really profess to have much knowledge of that, certainly the origins at least.
Do you feel like you got that from the experience?
Yeah, definitely. The thing that always sticks in my head is that nearly every morning, Ashley Banjo would take time to read the Bible and engage with the origin text of his religion. And I remember thinking, God, that's something I don't ever do. I should do that with the Quran. I should engage with it daily. I could see the effect that routine had on him. He's a very calm guy, and I wonder if that daily practice of reminding yourself of who you are in this world, what your role is, and how you believe you should live contributed to that. I really felt like I'd learnt something from someone of a different religion to me. And it just so happens to be the lead of a dance group called Diversity.
There were quite a few people on the trip who either didn't believe in a God or weren't sure about their faith. Did you have any interesting conversations? Did anyone find something new, or did you find something new yourself?
Every single day. That was one of the great things about that show. I remember Tasha telling me about her experience growing up as a deaf woman in a family where she was the only deaf person, and the idea of reconciling faith and God with the existence of suffering. Why does suffering exist? That was really illuminating to me as an able-bodied person thinking about how disability intersects with faith and religion. I had loads of conversations with Jayne and Hermione about spirituality and the differences and similarities between that and more formalised religions like Christianity, Islam or Judaism.
And then of course there was Ashley Blaker and his relationship with Judaism and how that has changed over time, the dynamism of religion and faith. Every day was a learning day. You were surrounded by people of different perspectives and backgrounds, and crucially, that was the entire purpose of the trip, to talk about this stuff that we often don't have time to discuss in our normal lives.
Were there any conversations that really stood out? Anything that surprised or stayed with you?
The conversation with Tasha is really fixed in my memory, talking about disability and faith, and how you reconcile the two, and the wider question of why suffering exists if there is a God. That one really stuck with me. I also remember conversations with Ashley Blaker about his dynamic relationship with faith and his views on the different sects within Judaism.
I actually didn't know that much about Judaism, even though some of my closest friends are Jewish. And one of the first things I learned was that, just like in Islam, there are different sects with different beliefs. Hearing Ashley Blaker talk about his relationship with faith over time was fascinating. He's such an eloquent, considered person. It was really great to hear what he thought on all of these topics.
It’s wonderful to see you share a bit of your culture with Tasha and Ashley Banjo, particularly going to the Islamic prayer room. How was that experience for you?
Really nice. What was especially lovely was the conversation the evening before, over dinner, about who was going to come with me. Only two people were going to join while everyone else did something different. What was so nice was that basically everyone wanted to come. As a Muslim growing up in this country, you kind of develop this default assumption that people don't like your religion, or don't like you as a result of it. So when suddenly you're in a situation where everyone is saying, I'd love to learn more about your religion, that's such a wonderful feeling.
Particularly with Ashley and Tasha, because we'd all got on so well on the trip. Even though I hadn't known them that long by that point, when someone expresses genuine interest in your religion and wants to learn more, it's almost like another level of friendship. It's a part of your life you wouldn't normally share with friends in that way. It felt very, very special. It's one of the most precious memories I take from the whole experience.
How did you find going to the Reform synagogue? Had you ever been to a synagogue before?
I don't think I had, no. It was wonderful. The people there had amazing stories. One of them told us about how her parents had come to the UK fleeing religious persecution, which was really shocking to hear. And then hearing how, as a result, she felt a responsibility and duty to work with refugees in the present day, that was really moving. As well as just learning about Reform Judaism, what a synagogue looks like, what happens inside one, and the sense of community they had there in the North East.
In Islam, we refer to Christians and Jews as Ahl al-Kitab, People of the Book, because the Bible and the Torah are considered revelations from God in Islam too. Seeing those similarities between the Abrahamic faiths was actually a theme that ran throughout the whole pilgrimage.
How was it praying in the synagogue?
It was really nice that they let me do that. The crew had got quite used to me by then. I remember the first time I asked to pray on the show, they said, if you can't ask to pray on this show, you can't ask to pray anywhere. So when the time came at the synagogue, I asked, and they said yes of course.
I've always had that kind of openness around me. At university, the chaplain of my college chapel was always happy to let me pray there when there wasn't a dedicated prayer room. Growing up, my dad had prayed in churches too. This is a building built for the worship of God. Why wouldn't you pray in there? It just made sense.
How was did you find the walking?
The challenging part was the weather at times. The rain could be quite intense. But the walking itself was really enjoyable, especially when you're doing it with people whose company you genuinely enjoy. It made it either much more tolerable or much more enjoyable, depending on the conditions. I never hike. I'm from Birmingham and live in London, so it's not something I'd done before, and honestly haven't done since. But you also get the benefit of connecting with nature, which I think is such an effective conduit for spirituality for a lot of people. It was really nice to experience that.
Did you do anything to prepare beforehand?
I bought the clothes, the hiking boots, the coat, the fleece, which was necessary. But beyond that, no real preparation. I'm relatively young and able-bodied, so the physical side of it was fine.
What was your favourite landscape or landmark that you visited?
I'm tempted to say Holy Island, where we ended up, just because of the walk to get there. When the tide came out and we walked across that stretch of land that had just been covered with water, that felt really special. And then hearing about the significance of the island, the fact that it was the destination we'd been walking towards the entire time. Durham Cathedral was really beautiful too. We saw castle ruins, vast open green spaces, coastline that was absolutely stunning. I remember seeing dolphins a couple of times, which I had no idea were even in UK waters. Like I said, every day was a learning day.
Did you feel any spiritual connection to any of the landmarks?
Durham Cathedral, I think, just because of the history, how old it is and the people buried there. It also had the most visitors of anywhere we went, people from all over the world just coming to see it. And I remember Jayne being from that part of the country and having visited Durham Cathedral as a child, so seeing that personal connection she had to it made it stick in the memory even more.
Did taking part in the series make you feel more comfortable speaking about your religion on a deeper level?
I think I'd always been comfortable doing that, depending on who I’m speaking to. If someone comes with an open mind and genuinely wants to understand, then yes. I grew up in a very small village about half an hour outside of Birmingham. I was the only Muslim and the only Arab in my school. I was very used to constantly having to explain why I can't eat certain things, why I need to do certain things. So I'd grown up being able to have those conversations.
If anything, what was different on this show was that I wasn't explaining things out of circumstance. I was explaining because people were genuinely interested. That's a much nicer feeling. It also works the other way: when people ask you questions, it interrogates your own knowledge and exposes the gaps. I tried to be careful on the show to say, just because I'm saying this doesn't mean it's 100% accurate. I would never claim to be an expert on Islam. But when you realise there are things you don't know, it makes you want to find the answers.
What do you want viewers to take from watching the series, and from watching you in particular?
I think my desired outcome from any conversation with anyone is for people to think, you know what, these Muslims aren't so bad after all. If I've achieved that, I've done a great job. I do gigs all across the country where I'm definitely the only Muslim in the room, and I might well be the only Muslim those people have ever met. I remember someone from my madrasa, madrasa being the Arabic word for school, saying we have a responsibility to be street Muslims, or to be cool Muslims, because you want people to get a sense that Muslims are normal, nice people, given how much information there is in the media to the contrary.
If people come away thinking, oh, that's interesting, I didn't know that about Islam, or even just start a conversation with their Muslim colleague and learn a bit more about them and their faith then that would be amazing.
What were your emotions in those final moments when you reached Lindisfarne?
Partly a sense of sadness that the trip was coming to an end. But also, a real sense of accomplishment. Throughout the trip we'd been trying to mirror history, to mirror the pilgrimage that people had taken to this island. And in that final moment I felt the closest connection to what those actual pilgrims had done. We'd got there, to the end. It's such a beautiful place. I remember speaking to the person in charge of the chapel dedicated to St Cuthbert, and it just felt like a real sense of completion. Like, yes, I get it now.
There is something about this place that is just divine. The way the early morning light reflected off the sands as we walked across to the island is stunning. I remember Ashley Banjo saying, “guys, this is crazy.” You just understood in that moment why people would travel so far to come here.
Would you do another pilgrimage? Have you done the pilgrimage to Mecca?
I've been to Mecca. When I was very young, I went with my parents when they did Umrah, which is a non-mandatory pilgrimage you can do outside of the Hajj season. So, I've been there and I've seen the Kaaba, but I haven't yet done Hajj itself. As a Muslim, you have to do Hajj if you're financially and physically able, at least once in your lifetime. It's in the plan, for sure. And following this pilgrimage, that desire has only grown stronger. I think Hajj is going to hit something different when I do it, insha'Allah.
Interview/picture supplied by BBC


